EP 46 Grief Provides Healing For All Losses, Not Just Death With Guest Julie Cluff

Living With Your Child's Addiction Podcast
Living With Your Child's Addiction Podcast
EP 46 Grief Provides Healing For All Losses, Not Just Death With Guest Julie Cluff

There’s a gap between what we expect in life and what we’re experiencing. In that gap is a loss. As parents we have hope and expectations. We expect a fulfilling relationship with our kids, family gatherings, milestones like prom and college, and we expect being a parent to feel good.  When addiction shows up we experience the painful gap between what we expect and our reality. We have to grieve those losses so we can let go of what we expected. We can stop wishing the past were different and focus on what we can intentionally create in the future.

In this episode Grief coach Julie Cluff and I discuss:

· Discounting and comparing losses

· We should only compare the impact of our own losses

· What misplaced guilt is and how it affects you

· Finding forgiveness in grief

· Our experiences can be hard and also possible to move through

· We can grieve gently

· The only way to heal from trauma is to choose the empowerment of change

· You don’t have to carry grief the rest of your life

Contact Julie Cluff:

website: https://www.buildalifeafterloss.com

free webinar: https://www.buildalifeafterloss.com/gift

facebook: Build a Life After Loss with Julie Cluff https://www.facebook.com/buildalifeafterloss

instagram: @buildalifeafterloss


If you want coaching about your child’s addiction or anything else Sign up for a 45 minute $17 call with me using the link below



For additional resources:

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Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/heather-ross9/message


This transcript has not been formatted or edited.


I’m Heather.

And this is a living with addiction podcast where I show you how you have more power than you realize when it comes to helping yourself and your child that struggling with addiction.

Hi everybody.


We’re back with another episode for season 2 and today I have a guest and I’m very excited to be starting off the season with this guest because I thought about talking about this topic before the topic of grief because it’s so important.


When dealing with our kids addiction that, we grieve the losses throughout the whole process, you know, Grief isn’t just about death, it is about all of the losses that we experience in life and it makes it very hard to move forward and accept our current situation if we aren’t grieving the losses as they come up.


And so of course, with my situation would dealing with the loss of my daughter, I’ve been very focused on Grief and people have shared some podcasts with me but I’m like I’m not ready to do that yet but then I just Happened to hear today’s guest on a podcast and I was like, okay, Bears, the person I’ve been looking for, I loved her outlook on Grief, and I really resonated with her story and so, Julie, can you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about the work that you do?



I’d love to.

My name is Julie, Clough, I am a grief coach.

I actually trained coaches.

About how to coach in grief like that specific topic.

I work with one-on-one clients.


I have a an online support Community called the true hope Club.

So it’s all about education, grief education, grief support, and we just don’t know.

Like like you’re saying we as a population, we have very little information about grief and yet, everybody Experiences loss and nothing has been more obvious than the last two years of a pandemic.


The losses that we that we experience in a lifetime, it they really pile up and we don’t deal with them.

And and like you said, we have to grieve the loss has.

It’s not just about death or even a lot of times people will just associated with death or, or divorce and it’s so much more than that.


And a lot of times, we don’t even acknowledge our losses, and then we have a loss of energy, and we don’t know why.

And yeah, there’s just so much so much.

I’m also, I’m the mom of six and my two youngest children died in a car accident.

And that was the loss.


That really brought me to the work that I’m doing.

Now, I lost my brother to Suicide many years ago and I went through a divorce from my first husband and I just I feel like My life has just been filled with loss experiences and grief experiences and has been.


I’ve been a student.

I’ve been a student of loss and grief my entire life and didn’t even realize what didn’t even realize it.

But when a few years ago, I had a very strong impression that I was supposed to do something with this and it’s been a very interesting.


Ting and Miraculous Journey.


And you can I’m sure relate with people on so many levels because of all of the losses that you’ve experienced and you know in the last probably two years, I’ve gone through a divorce and breast cancer and losing my daughter.


And so all it’s kind of like all of The Grieving that I did from the divorce and the breast cancer, honestly gave me the skill set that I needed to deal with.

The loss of my daughter and so I can’t even imagine what I would it be experiencing right now how much more intense it would be if I hadn’t taken the time to get that skill set.


And so that’s why I think this work that you’re talking about sharing is so important because life just keeps happening.

Like there are no passes you know all the things that you described you’ve been through and what I’ve been through in the last couple of years like like it’s just a part of life.


So can you share a little bit about how important it is to grieve more than death?

I mean, we’re talking about these things that come up, you know, when it comes to parents dealing with addiction, I just want to point out.

Maybe they don’t even think of grieving these things but it’s the loss of the relationship or the way.


They thought the relationship was going to be or what you think being a mom.

Mom is going to look like, which by the way, I’ve been in group coaching programs and it never looks Angry Pink.

It’s going to look at doesn’t matter whether kids dealing with addiction or not.

And so you know, even like the Carefree life we had before addiction or other things other losses come into our life.


So how you know the importance of that and then you know how you work with people grieving more than death.

Yeah, well, it’s You bring up such good, good points.

It were grieving that the Lost expectations, we grieve the Lost hopes and dreams.


And there’s a, there’s a gap between expectation and what we’re experiencing.

There’s a gap between the hopes and the dreams that we had and what we’re experiencing and in that space is a loss and the loss, the natural reaction to a A loss is grief, its sadness and because we don’t talk about grief in this way because we don’t acknowledge that a loss causes feelings of grief.


Then we just go about our day thinking, there’s something wrong with us because we don’t feel good and we’re like, why don’t I feel good?

Like why what’s wrong with me that like look at all the good that I have in?


Life, a lot of times, I’ll hear that from people.

And they’ll even don’t even say, well, this happened in this happened, but I still have a good life or they discount the discount, the pain, they discount the loss and sometimes depending on the loss and we had to be really, really careful about not comparing losses.


So for one person losing their dog, could be devastating and life-changing for another person.

It could be Just another experience in life and they and it is not as impactful and neither is right or wrong, it’s just different.


And as humans we have different relationships with different things.

So we’re really careful about comparing between people.

Like I’m not going to compare my loss with somebody else’s and vice versa.

But but we can compare the impact of our own losses so I can put on a scale and I can Tell you that by far my most painful, most difficult loss was the car accident.


When my children died, I was driving the car.

I didn’t feel sleepy at all, we were traveling across country fell asleep at the wheel and my kids died that day and like devastating.

And so often when we experience loss, it’s almost Universal.


We also experience what I call misplaced grief I’m guilt because we we point the loss back to ourselves and go.

What did I do wrong?

I should have done this.

I should have done that and we start experiencing all this guilt.


Well, in my case, it was very clear, who is at fault in the accident was a one-car accident.

I fell asleep at the wheel and yet I still had the opportunity to forgive myself to move on from that place.

As difficult as it was, as I don’t say this, To make it sound like it was easy because it wasn’t easy at all.


But I think there’s a difference between it’s hard and possible versus it’s hard and not possible to get over it.

And so, to move on to experience healing and that situation some of the losses that we experienced, all they really need is, are they need acknowledgement some Sometimes we just need to acknowledge the loss and that’s enough.


And sometimes it really needs a process to help us to move through to break it down to experience it gently and be able to move through when I was in college.


I became really ill and I didn’t even know what was going on.

I just knew that my grades were just dropping like a rock.

Mark and I could not focus and there’s all this stuff going on, but I didn’t recognize it as physical for a long time.


I just thought, you know, there’s something wrong with me and there was I was dealing with hyperthyroidism or Graves disease.

My thyroid was three times, the size it was supposed to be.

So it was causing an imbalance in my system and making it really difficult.


I couldn’t focus.

I couldn’t concentrate.

I couldn’t where I had always been really pretty academically.


I was no longer academically inclined and I ended up leaving college and not finishing when I was a young person.


And every time I would go to the university and step on that campus, I would feel this sinking feeling it’s because I just wasn’t acknowledging.

The pain of that loss of that expectation that I had for myself that I was going to get this degree.


By the time I was 22 and I was going to do XY and z and so forth.

But the minute I started to acknowledge the loss and acknowledge that was a that was a painful experience for me, 20 years later when I kind of figured out what was going on.


Then I was able to forgive myself for what happened.

I was able to acknowledge the pain that it created and release it release the pain.

And that’s, that’s the beauty.

Is that a lot of times we keep the pain suppressed because we’re afraid of the pain and we’re afraid that if we don’t get that, if we open it up, then we’re going to just feel that pain forever and ever and ever.


And it’s never going to go away.

I hear that.

At so many times for my clients are like I’m just I’m afraid to feel sad because if I feel sad it may never end.

You just brought up so many good points.

I don’t even know where to start.

But I mean, the last one I can really resonate with because for a long time, my preferred emotion was numbness.


And so, when I started processing my feelings again I had like a backlog of emotions to process but definitely by far like my daughter’s addiction.

Got me started on that road of processing emotions and then dealing with breast cancer, really like I think I went back and processed every emotion I’d ever had during that time, and it did seem like at times, it would never stop.


But then, that gave me the Confidence in my ability to process emotions.

Now, where I could just sit with my grief after my daughter died, and really feel the intensity of it, the first like month and a half and now I don’t want to say they like you said that, it’s not that it’s easy.


And anyway, but like I can just let it come up a little while ago I picked up my phone to look for something.

There was a picture of my daughter on there that I loved and I you know I just started grieving and it but it passed.

Through me within like two or three minutes.


And so I think that like once we build that skill of grieving that it does process faster than people think Woody is that what your experience is with your clients?

Yeah, absolutely.

You’re all work with with somebody and it’s been six or seven years since a traumatic loss and other than the minute they start working on it, they start gaining those skills.


There’s a loosening there’s a loosening of the pain where the pain is felt really stuck in stagnant or a for a long time.

And there’s been an avoidance of it, then then now they have like oh there’s a wait, there’s something I can do with this and to be clear so many times we hear that there’s nothing you can do, just wait, wait it out and I think that is so sad.


Sad that we’re telling people that because in the waiting, they’re not gaining the skills that would help them along the way and make it, not easy.

But easier like you said and then there they feel completely disempowered because basically they’re being told there’s nothing you can do, you just have to wait it out and waiting it out.


A lot of times doesn’t work and doesn’t help and Then we think oh well this is my lot in life, I just have to be in this place.

I just have to feel this way the rest of my life.

And that’s not been my experience.

I love that message.


I think it’s so important because I felt that way at first when my when you know my daughter first died.

I was like I joined a couple of grief support groups in the Outlook was really Bleak, I mean, years and years down the road there’s just they’re still living in that such Devastation and for me, I know that, like, I can experience more than one feeling.


At a time, I can be Experiencing The Grieving in the sadness and missing her but also love and joy about the moment that I’m in or the people that I’m with right now.

And so I was so happy when I heard your message that you had come to a place where you had created a better life that you had learned and grown from the situation because I wanted to believe that for myself.


I was like I just can’t live thinking that.

My life is over and I’m never going to be able to experience real Joy again and I want to connect to my daughter through love and her death.

You know the same way I did in her life instead of through guilt and Trauma and just grief.


And so you shared, you know, how I heard you on this podcast and a couple of your other podcast that I listened to sharing how you had built a better life since the Those that use the situation to be intentional and it was easy for me to see that on the other side of addiction or what you know.


And I would had worked through it for a long time or even with my breast cancer, like how much it helped me and change my life in a positive way.

And initially, I had a ton of resistance to thinking about building a, any thoughts of a better life without my daughter.



But And I think that a lot of times the parents that are that listen to this podcast, might hear me say that, my life was better after my daughter’s addiction, that it helped me grow and change and I can see how they could have resistance to that.

The way I have resistance to the idea that my life could be any better now.


So, can you share some about how you, you know, like what changes you made in your life or how this experience helped you change and grow I think what’s really important is to separate what happened from the change, what happened, the devastation that we experienced the trauma, the guilt, the grief, the shame, even all of that, that we experience is the experience of the loss.


And I’m trying to find the best way to explain this, it’s not that.

My life is better because my kids died.

It’s my life is better because I had to find a better way.

So it’s not because of the experience that is and are indirectly.


But it’s not because of the experience, but we can use that experience which is a catalyst to change because the only way to heal from such devastation, Ation is to change.

It’s the only way those the only choice we either stay there in this place of trauma, or we choose a different way and we make choices.


And that’s where our empowerment is.

That’s where the power is the personal power to, to make choices to be intentional.

To decide that I do want to be happy someday, and it’s okay if I’m not happy in this moment.


Okay in.


And I often tell people don’t Judge your future by how you feel right now.

And a lot of times I think that’s what’s happens is we’re right in the middle of this yuckiness of grief and this heaviness of a loss, and the grief is part of the healing process.


So if we start to look at it as part of the healing process that it’s transforming Us in these small incremental ways as we choose in to be changed.

And then we can use our grief to transform and create a life that we love again despite the loss.


I think that’s where the confusion comes in and why we get this very distinct message.

Especially I mean since I’ve been in this space, the last few years, I see how really really strong the messages that you have to carry grief, the rest of your life.


And I I don’t subscribe to That.

But I get it because we think that the only way to let go of the pain is to have changed the loss when we can’t change the laws.


So therefore the conclusion is we have to hold on to the pain.

The loss is still there.

What we experienced still happen, but we can let go of the pain.

And like you mentioned before really build that love and that gratitude for the relationship that we did.


Have or for the thing that we did have because everything is always changing good.

Never stays the bad never stays it’s like everything is Shifting and changing.

Yeah yeah I love that.

You said we need to separate what happened from the growth and even separating what happened from the Gratitude.


I mean, I tried to really practice gratitude or seeing God or how things are happening for me, in a situation in spite of how tragic it is.

And I’ve really I think that I didn’t have the words for that, you know, to separate, you know, what happened from the, the growth or the Gratitude, but I think it’s just kind of happened naturally in this situation, just seeing the love that’s been there for me and the people that are put in my path.


That I just happened to catch you as a guest on this podcast.

You know, like I was like, I need a mom who’s been through this, who is living a message of Hope and hope is the word I’ve used several times, I’ve even posted that.


I felt like that.

I didn’t have hope and that’s what bothered me.

And then here you come along with the true.

Hope Club is the name of your group coaching program and it’s just I that to me is Is, you know, I have so much gratitude that I got to hear that and see another message of hope that we can experience.


You know, you said, my life is better because I had to find a better way now because of the event.

And that’s I love the way you put that because that’s exactly what happened with my daughter’s addiction.

And, you know, what happened with breast cancer, like, I had to find a better way to deal with it to live my life, too.


Open up to experiencing the full spectrum of human emotion instead of numbness.

And so I think that and I love also you mentioned like don’t judge your future by how you feel now because I think that sometimes it feels like it’s never going to stop.


You know, you’re dealing with grief or addiction, it does feel that way.

In fact, I had the dreaded, you know, virus a month or so ago and they’ve been a long time, I’m since I’ve been saying any time you know you end up with a flu or something.


It’s like right in the middle of that you’re like I am never going to feel well again like it literally had those thoughts like I am never going to have the energy to get up and work again and that’s a very very minor example of that but it’s the same concept as the same ideas like in the middle of it, it feels like there is no Shore in sight like there’s Way of getting to the where we want to go.


Because and I think in grief to us, like we don’t have a path.

It’s so it’s like of course, I can’t get there.

Like that’s what our brain says.

Of course, you can’t get there, you don’t know how and that’s why I found it.

So important that we create a path because if we don’t our brain wants to know how and we can’t answer all the howls before we get started on a journey.



But if you know, it’s like using a GPS.

We don’t know exactly what stores were going to be driving past or what stop lights are going to stop us along the way or whatever.

But we have a path, like we’ve got the little highlighted road that says go this way and I think that’s super helpful.


Also, can I just mention why I call it the true hope Club?

Yeah please.

So I was reading I like to use the 1828 dictionary.

Webster dipped dictionary.

Just kind of interesting.

I like to look at the way.


They, they defined things, you know, a couple hundred years ago.

I think it’s interesting and I was reading about Hope in this dictionary.

I looked it up for some reason and it says something along the lines of this certainty of expectation.


So, when we think wish is kind of like, oh like you know will say hope I hope this happens or I wish this would happen and we tend to two in our vocabulary tend to Interchange those words wish and hope.

And I like to share with people that hope is so much more than wishing hope is like this expectation.


That this thing is going to happen and hope is like, I think it’s part of our DNA.

I really do.

I feel like it’s part of our DNA and part of one of the reasons why grief is so uncomfortable.

And because Being stuck in grief when it goes on and on like it does for people like you mentioned these groups when it goes on and on is so uncomfortable because it’s not the way were made.


We’re not made to be stuck in sadness forever.

We’re not were made for growth were made for healing.

All you have to do is scratch your finger and know that you’re made for healing.

And I think it that physical example translates into the emotional as well.


Yeah, that’s a really great example.

Like if we scratch our finger, we’re not thinking, oh my gosh, it’s going to stay this way forever.

It’s never going to heal, but when we feel pain or discomfort, we think it’s going to last forever.

I mean, and I was stuck in that a couple weeks ago thinking I’m never going to have the desire to create anything in my life.



I was like, how can that I I feel that way and like, everything else I had to give myself time to rest, but I also had to know when it was time to start helping myself create that and I think maybe that’s part of what you’re talking about when you talk about having that clear path.


Yeah, I do you help your clients with that.

Well, I develop the Hope model of healing.

Everything is around hope.

As you can see the Hope model of healing which includes five foundations of growth.

And I think when we truth truth, strengthens us and falsehoods lies weakness.


They just do, like, just, I don’t know if you’re familiar with kinesiology or there.

They’ve actually Associated physical weakness with lies.

Like, if your name is Heather, but if you said, my name is Joe, it would actually they could test you could.


You would test weaker.

So infusing truth into our grief experience, so that we understand what coping is, what choices were making in coping, what choices we can make.

So that we understand grave.


So, we know that is part of the process of healing.

So that we know that if we open up to our sadness, it won’t last forever.

If I die, often use a visual with my clients it changes, but it The basic idea is, if you have a bathtub full of dirty water and you you let the plug up it drains, right?


But it doesn’t drain forever and ever and ever and ever, there’s an end to the amount of dirty water held in the tub, and it’s kind of the same with our grief and our sadness.

When we allow, like you’ve been talking about like processing your emotions by allowing them by sitting with We don’t do enough of that.


We don’t have enough of an understanding about emotions period and with cell phones, and tablets and electronics.

And all these things that we have available to us, we never have to sit with our emotions if we don’t want to and it creates this life of just getting by.


Yeah, these like my mentor, called some false Pleasures.

Like all of these things that like Social media or whatever.

We use that are just distractions but not helping us change and grow and feel.

And I think that it was just, it’s kind of like this, like, you know, that you need to do it, but there’s just that huge fear of doing it.


And so, you know, I’m always talking about how like, you said, I like processing, my emotions and learning to do that and went being Willing to feel them and knowing that they’re just a feeling of vibration in our body.


They are not going to kill us even though some of them feel very terrifying like it it’s a real feeling that we’re experiencing but we have to keep reminding ourselves that it’s just a feeling and like you said the the tub of dirty water won’t drain forever and so but it’s not sexy, right?


It it’s not very fun sounding but on the other side of it is just the Like the key to living a fulfilling life one.

And I would also just offer that it can be gentle.

Grief can be gentle, we can actually set an intention to grieve gently.


There’s a need to understand grief, and understand, the properties.

The qualities of grief to understand that rest is part of the grieving process.

That, you know, when we’re physically injured We require a lot of rest because that’s when our body heals and it’s the same with our emotions that we can that there’s healing in the rest, but a lot of times what people do is, they feel so guilty about resting that they undo any good that happened during the resting because they’re just keeping an and that’s a lot of what we work on is like, how can we eliminate the unnecessary heavy emotions?


That we Pile on top of grief, how can we get in that place where we’re just gently allowing the grief?

What are some strategies for when grief shows up at times?

When it’s not convenient, when we’re not in a crowd that we feel comfortable falling apart?


What do we do with that?

Like all these questions?

You know, that we have that go unanswered but are answerable and that’s what we want to do.

Is Want to create some knowledge and skill around loss and grieve because my experience my life’s experiences are not my last losses variances.


I will have other losses in my life.

Then the one thing that I love is when we learn these foundations, they truly become foundations that are built under us.

So that when things come up, we know what To do, do we do it perfectly know are we meant to do it perfectly?


Absolutely, not absolutely not, but the most important thing in grief to know is that it is okay to grieve a people don’t even recognize that it’s okay.

And they think that yeah, it’s okay to grieve and it’s okay to want something more.


Yeah, and I love that you point out that it’s a foundational skill because sometimes we feel like In that we shouldn’t have to take the time to grieve or to spend the time on it, or take the time to learn how to deal with your child’s addiction, that they should just figure it out and heal on their own.


When really, it’s a chance for us to build a foundational skill that we will need throughout the rest of our life.

Like you said, the losses don’t stop and I think it leads to acceptance of our situation.

When we take the time to grieve and just accept where we are and then we can can move into that growth one thing that I outs that I heard you talk about that.


I loved, which was like, how you had experienced that being in that state of constant review, like, where you are constantly reviewing the, the car accident.

But that you always came to the same conclusion and it was, I’ve experienced the same thing.


I know that parents do it over and over again, with trying to get to like, where did the addiction start?

Where did I go wrong?

We spend so much time and energy on the problem that we don’t have any energy left for the solution or to, even think that there could possibly be a solution.


So do you want to talk about, like, how you manage that review process for yourself or with your clients?

Well, I think the review process is just part of the process like we’re not going to eliminate it completely, we just won’t, there are brain is looking for answers.


And so, We’re going to go through this this thing, but there’s a few things, like, in light of what you were saying about, you know, having a child, who’s, who’s struggling drug addiction, or any other type of addiction or struggle that a child has?


We do go through that review process of like, oh, what did I do?

But life is so much more complex than that and really kind of goes back to like, when we were in Entry School and we were told you’re not the center of the universe, you know.


We think that everything began and ended with us, like, oh, if I had just said this, or I remember like really going through that after my brother died is by Suicide, like, what could I have done differently?

Why didn’t I call this day?


Why didn’t I do this?

Why didn’t I do that?

Like any of the losses that I experienced?

I go through that process, and I think it’s normal and natural, but at the end of the day, Say we have to say to ourselves, there’s a bigger picture.

There’s a I think you mentioned this earlier this idea that life happens for us when my kids died.


They were 8 and 10 karat.

David was eight, Kerry was 10 and my two oldest daughters were at college and then my two sons were at home, they were 15 and 12.

So everybody had been home and then all of a sudden there were four of us House.


You know my husband and I and two teenage boys.

Teenage years are rough anyway and then I’m in a situation where I’m not paying attention because I’m in this horrific grief PTSD.

Everything you can imagine, like just heaped on me emotionally, unavailable emotionally checked out just in a really, really hard terrible space.


And I then I would feel so guilty that I wasn’t there for my boys.

By the way, I wanted to be there and I remember like this point of truth that just just was highlighted for me and it was Julie.


This is their experience to like their experience in high school is to have a mom who’s checked out and it’s okay, it’s part of their experience, it’s part of their for whatever reason, that’s the life experience that they needed for life to happen for.


I’m in this strange way and we don’t understand at all and I don’t pretend to understand it all.

But I do have a very very much a belief in God and believe that that everything is happening for our greater good as painful and as difficult as it is, but it I will say that even when I was at a place where like the three-year Mark, I had a really amazing experience that kind of like turn the lights on for me.


And and, but it was two years after that, five years down the road that all of a sudden, I was reading a book on Grief and reviewing my own experience and all of a sudden I just because I had thought, I’m never going to be grateful for this experience never ever.



Always say, oh, I’m so grateful for this or that, like, I’m never going to feel that.

And all of a sudden, five years later, I’m reading this book and also And I’m just flooded with so much gratitude.

Not not that this horrible thing happened, but for the person that I was becoming because of it.


Like, I was so grateful for that expansion of my soul that I could never have imagined happening.

Otherwise, Yeah.

Yeah that was a beautiful gift that you gave to yourself by being willing to do all of the work that it came that it took to be that person which is a decision that we all have to make in our lives that we’re going to be willing to do that.


Work to give ourselves that gift.

And I think that something that you said, a few things that you said that are very probably relatable to parents who they have one child.

Old, or maybe more that struggling with addiction and they have other kids.

I only had one child so that wasn’t my experience.


So I don’t get to talk about it a lot, but how guilty parents feel because of the experience they’re other kids have because they’re so focused on trying to rescue and help the child that struggling, with addiction, that there are other kids end up feeling, you know, almost abandoned or left out.


And then they feel guilty about that too.

And like I love You know, that you pointed out that that is their experience and they can grow from that experience.

And I had to have that realization with my daughter, about her addiction.

Like this was her journey.


This was her path.

I had to allow her to have her own experience and I think that even in the end that Bri, when the review process comes up for me about how could I have stopped At her from using the day that she died, you know, maybe I should have been there, but it was her choice to make it that time.


I was supporting her and every way that I could as an adult, I had made the choice with her addiction to allow her to be on her own path, but love and support her.

But I couldn’t stand over her and make sure that she didn’t use and that idea of each of us having our own journey in our own path is very freeing to me as well.


It was something that really helped me when I decided, you know.

Yeah, I really believe that that feels like a universal truth to me.


I believe it.

Truly is a universal truth.

We are all on our own Journey.


Life isn’t just happening for our good.

It’s happening for the good of everybody around us and whatever that experience is.

And when things are good, it’s super easy to believe that and when things are hard it’s super hard to believe that.


Absolutely I agree or 100%.

Well I could keep talking forever.

It would be fun because I just I mean, we came up.

I’ve there was just so many great things in this conversation.

I think it’s going to be so helpful to everybody that listens.


So I just want to thank you again for your time being here today.

If they listen As I’m sure they’re going to want to find out more about you.

So, can you tell them where they find you?

Your podcast, all the good stuff.



So build a life after lost about cam so at build a life after loss.com, it’s a bit of a mouthful.


You can find the podcast.

Of course, it’s on all the podcast apps.

You can find the true.

Hope club and get in there and learn those foundational pieces or you can schedule a time to meet with me.

I For a 30-minute consult.

If somebody is like, what would it be like to work with Jubilee?


Could she help me with some of these things?

Let’s jump on a call and find out.

I also have a free webinar that recording that’s available at build a life after loss.com gift GI F T2.


Okay, we’ll put all that in the show notes so that you don’t have to memorize that.

So I go there and look for that.

If you want to look up any information about Julie and then thank you again.

So much for being here today.


My pleasure.

Thanks for having me.

Good to talk to you, Heather.

Thank you for listening to this episode.

If you want to learn more about my work, go to Heather.

Ross coaching.com if you want to help other parents who are struggling with a child’s addiction, you can do it two different ways.


First, you can share the podcast with them directly or you can share it on your social media second.

You can leave a review, talk to you next week.