EP78 Mom, Wife, and Addiction: The Ripple Effect of Stigma, Shame, and Values with guest Amanda Lockyer from Addiction Makes Three

Living With Your Child's Addiction Podcast
Living With Your Child's Addiction Podcast
EP78 Mom, Wife, and Addiction: The Ripple Effect of Stigma, Shame, and Values with guest Amanda Lockyer from Addiction Makes Three
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Addiction within a family can be a challenging experience, particularly when more than one family member is affected. Whether it’s a child or a spouse, the common thread is the experience of stigma and shame. In this episode, guest Amanda Lockyer from Addiction Makes Three, shares her experience as a wife, and Heather shares her experience as a mother. They candidly discuss how shame and stigma made everything harder for them at the beginning of their journeys with their loved ones. Both women felt isolated without support and disconnected from their loved ones. As they reflect on their journeys, they discuss how shame, stigma, and fear caused them to stray from their values as a wife and mother. Despite these challenges, Amanda and Heather share their journeys towards self-compassion and self-forgiveness, which helped them become better support systems for their loved ones. They reflect on how getting back in touch with their values helped them tap into their internal guidance systems and support their loved ones from a place of compassion and understanding. Tune in to this episode to learn more about the challenges that families face when living with substance use, and how it’s possible to overcome shame and stigma to become a better support system for your loved ones and yourself.

Amanda Lockyer is an addiction relationship coach for women. She helps women who have been impacted by their partner’s addiction find inner peace and take back control of their lives. You can find Amanda and follow her on ⁠Instagram⁠ or go to her ⁠website ⁠.

Resources From Heather Ross Coaching

GUIDE ABOUT ENABLING – If you’ve ever worried about enabling, this guide is for you! https://heatherrosscoaching.com/perspective-about-enabling/

If you want coaching about your child’s addiction or anything else Sign up for a 45 minute $17 call with me
using the link below 
https://heatherrosscoachingcalendar.as.me/RoadtoRecovery

GROUP COACHING PROGRAM –  Peace of Mind Group for moms
https://heatherrosscoaching.com/peace-of-mind-community/

New Learning/Support Group
Use the link below to find out about the Invitation to Change support group Heather is hosting.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Learn More & Sign Up For The Invitation To Change Group⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Follow Heather on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/heatherrosscoaching

Follow Heather on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/heatherrosscoaching/

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join the free Facebook group for parents who are struggling with a child’s addiction⁠⁠⁠

Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/heather-ross9/message

Transcript

This transcript has not been formatted or edited.

0:01

I’m Heather after many wasted years, trying outdated, approaches to my daughter’s addiction, that felt wrong to me harmed.

Our relationship and didn’t help my daughter.

I finally found an effective evidence-based approach.

0:16

That repair my relationship with her helped me.

Create my own peace of mind and made me an ally in my daughter’s recovery.

I teach you a loving and compassionate approach to help you encourage change.

And create connection addiction impacts the entire family system.

0:35

Family recovery is the answer.

Hi Amanda, thank you for being here today.

To share your story.

Thank you for having me.

Let’s start with you giving a little bit of your background and the kind of work you do, and how you got into it before we get into talking about our topic today?

0:56

Yes, I’m amazing.

I would love to so I guess my background is I actually my 15 year old self decided I wanted to be an accountant so I then got busy pursuing that career path went to university, did all that stuff and originally from New Zealand.

1:16

So I traveled overseas lived in London for almost 10 years and then moved to Australia.

So MIT lots of amazing people and that time and had an amazing experience.

And And did my accounting thing and got to Sydney and I met my husband in Sydney’s.

1:36

It was wonderful.

I was thrilled and yeah, an amazing guy and we just connected straight away and it was wonderful within went and did the things had kids, married, and all of that stuff and it was great.

1:55

I was so happy and there was always like something ugly feelings and the back Around of something’s not quite right, couldn’t put my finger on it and then the little niggly is became something a bit more.

And then it was apparent that there was a problem with what I didn’t you to be alcohol and then later gambling and just got and stuck, you know, just so stuck in that time was just stuck for many years and eventually sort some support.

2:30

For myself, which was hard and not overly accessible with two young kids and kind of came through that many years and we’ll get into that.

And then I decided that I wanted to go back and help people and create some support that I would have absolutely loved at the time when I was in the thick of it myself.

2:52

So that’s what I did.

I started an online support group and then I was like, this is not enough.

When did the coaching thing?

And probably 18 months ago, started coaching women, who had been impacted by our loved ones addiction.

3:10

So, now I’m addiction relationship coach, and I support women to get back to living and give them the tools to navigate the tricky stuff and help them get back to themselves.

So, yeah, that’s kind of where I got to.

I love that.

3:26

It’s funny.

I used to be an accountant to.

So my goodness.

That was my career before.

I did the same thing.

I thought the exact same thing of when I was looking for help it wasn’t available and when I finally did find all the tools I thought, I’m just going to go out and create what I needed when I was looking at.

3:47

So the kind of the same thought process.

Yeah.

So let’s start by talking about stigma and how stigma has influenced your journey And like how it affected your experience of your husband’s addiction?

4:07

Yeah.

Oh my gosh.

And you know, you and I have spoken about this a lot from our different perspectives and the stigma of addiction prevents you from firstly let’s seeking support for yourself and you know, the stigma and the shame and completely isolates, you the fear of Moment, Fair people not understanding and just how have I got here in yourself and created.

4:38

I guess I became a shell of myself.

I was navigating this completely crazy chaotic situation that I didn’t understand.

I had no understanding of this had.

No prior experience of this it wasn’t in my world and I just didn’t know what to do and The stigma of addiction because addiction yuck and I don’t know what you think, but I, it’s that strong sense of this is a moral failing.

5:13

Addiction is a moral failing and when there’s that message out there, you feel that so deeply that this is a moral issue?

How can someone do this?

And so that it stops, I Yes, both all people from seeking support for themselves or reaching out for connection like the person struggling themselves and the loved ones, we’re all just behind closed, doors trying to navigate.

5:43

Something that is so hard and we don’t have the tools.

So then we just do our best with what we’ve got and often that the things that we think are going to help, don’t help.

5:59

So the stigma Stops us from seeking support, it stops us from reaching out, and not even to professionals and the first instance, but given to people in our Circle, our loved ones, our people, a stigma stops you from reaching out to those people because it’s hard and people don’t understand.

6:20

And that’s okay, but when people don’t understand, they offer words and advice that is often Not helpful.

And then there’s more shame that you didn’t.

Then follow the unhelpful advice, they gave you and then you feel like you can’t speak about it anymore.

6:40

So I feel like the stigma is very multifaceted and that aspect you don’t reach out for support to professionals and even I think sometimes there’s limited understanding even in that space of what the reality of living with this is is not textbook stuff.

6:58

We are living in it.

Only 47 and it is so hard.

And so I think this really is stopped you from seeking support and because you don’t have support, you just doing your best.

It’s not helpful, sometimes it’s harmful actually to your loved one and to yourself.

7:18

And you start responding and crazy ways to Crazy situations and in crisis, because you just don’t have the tools and you don’t have the people around you saying.

We’ve got you, you know, and any other kind of personal crisis, Health Medical situational thing.

7:37

Usually people will wrap their arms around you and that you know that village community.

We’ve got you were here for you.

Anything you need, you get meals, you get people coming over helping you.

If you have kids you have co-workers checking in on you, but stigma stops you firstly and Self reaching out for that support.

8:00

And then when you do it’s hit or miss.

So there’s the risk of the people that you do reach out to, are they going to understand?

And then sometimes what I have experienced is people get bored.

So when you do Reach Out is sometimes a lot of are initially and compassion and understanding.

8:23

But then, as time goes by, and that’s still a thing.

It’s Is that not solved yet?

You know, is that still a thing for you like is that they not better yet and that?

So that’s like okay.

Now I kind of mention it now again and I think the stigma and nobody we got are going to get into values but the stigma it’s hard to sit in that stigma and stay in line with your values because the stigma of someone having slip-ups along the way it’s hard.

8:53

To be honest about that because we know that’s a reality, the The hard thing and whatever you’re trying to work towards people don’t understand.

And so, the stigma it’s hard to stay in line with your value system with stigma and addiction.

9:10

So, but I think this really in the first instance, it stops people from reaching the necessary support that they need.

Yeah, there’s just so much.

You said in there that I want to comment on, but I think the slip-ups especially right, if they have a really A occurrence of use.

9:29

And there’s this, we want them to be honest with us, but we create an environment that’s impossible for them.

To be honest with us about what they’re experiencing about if they are even thinking about using or having cravings or something like that.

9:48

But if we haven’t done the work on ourselves, then we don’t have the emotional capacity to hear that and managing our feelings about it without Shaming and stigmatizing them more, my gosh.

Yes, absolutely.

And I think for myself, and if I rewind, you know, five years, six years, A reoccurrence or a slip-up was the worst thing imaginable and my mind.

10:14

Because that’s what I had heard.

That’s what you hear.

Once you decide to not do something, just simply not do it and if you do slip up, that’s the worst thing.

So then family members and partners.

That’s the First thing then.

Oh my gosh.

10:29

This is the worst and it’s not and I wish I knew that now and we respond or rather react in a way that tells our person that tells us that’s the worst thing that could have ever happened, you know, and we react in a way and then our Behavior follows through and it is not the worst thing.

10:50

But a lot of people society that is how could you, and there’s so much.

Even that and the doesn’t invoke honesty and we haven’t made it a safe place previously, differently your and I definitely have in our journey, but we want the truth, we want to help you in the truth to be a safe place.

11:13

But if we don’t make the truth, a safe place and ourselves, we’re not welcoming that.

Yeah.

And when you mention that slip-up is the worst thing that could happen when you have that belief system, What goes along with that is nothing that I’m doing is working.

11:31

I hate that.

Everything is a failure.

Everything is wrong instead of seeing, okay, we’ve done.

Great and we got this far and so things obviously are working if we’ve made it this far right and having different standards of measurement for Success like kindness and compassion and connection and all these other things that we could.

11:57

Choose that are right for our family and situation, then we can all experience Summit success and creating like good feelings for ourselves in this horrible situation.

Yes.

Absolutely.

And I think we always are immediately drawn to the shortcomings, the downside, the -.

12:20

And often I think our mind does a hop skip and a jump to the worst-case scenario and And catastrophizing and a slip-up or a rare occurrence, is not a catastrophe and itself, but our mind goes there and then, you know, and then we’re driven by fear and then it’s all the worries and then we are live better behave in a crazy way to a light them.

12:44

To the fact that this is not okay and just the actions and behaviors just driven out of fear and it’s if we can give ourselves the tools to navigate those situations.

The healthier way for everybody that’s when we get better outcomes, that’s when we get people knowing, I have done really well.

13:07

What went on here.

What do I need to do differently?

What didn’t quite work out that time.

Let’s go again.

Yeah, yeah.

And I had that abstinence only belief system like the one way to recovery which was going to treatment and That the only recovery there was was complete abstinence forever and that was the stigma influencing my belief system.

13:40

And really like you had said earlier my belief system included that it was a moral issue and that there was a part of me that actually believed really entertain the whole idea of choice which I don’t and and It really affected my the way I showed up as a mom and because of my belief system that I had done something wrong, right?

14:09

That stigma says this can be controlled and I should be able to fix it or change it or I did something wrong or this wouldn’t have ever happened.

Like I should have been some kind of different or better parent so that my daughter wouldn’t struggle in this way and it really not only is such a separator on like a grand scale not just like from us in our loved one but like you mentioned from us and people we work with our friends.

14:46

It just leads to so much isolation when we really all just need connection and keeps us from going out and getting help.

I can remember just being So I didn’t tell anybody for a long time because of my beliefs about it, I kept it a secret and it was like just this feeling of Shame which we’re going to talk about more when I finally did admit what was happening in my life.

15:14

But it opened up so many doors for healing and for people to share their experiences with me that they were hiding.

So it just opened all of these doors for me but that stigma Just keeping us so isolated and alone and the shame that it causes.

15:34

I think that that and itself to me and I, you know, I’ve experienced it more after my daughter passed away.

Like the most stigma that I experienced honestly in this whole situation was from the police.

When they called to tell me that my daughter passed away and then in subsequent conversations about if they were doing anything to find out what had happened, and And it really like just goes to show the lack of understanding and the lack of Education just oh yeah board and it then I go back to having compassion for myself.

16:10

Then of course I had this belief system and of course, when you’re constantly getting this input from everybody around you the professionals you go to for help and like on TV shows, it’s just this constant.

16:27

Instant input about stigma, it’s going to affect your beliefs like I know that I’m still affected by it today I catch it earlier, I still work on it and I have to work through like my thought process.

Like if this was Helena how would I be thinking about this?

16:45

But it’s because it’s just a lifetime of conditioning.

It’s not just going to go away overnight.

Oh my gosh.

Yes.

So Terry and it is you do have to catch yourself and it is all Corners of society.

And it is such a wide held belief system on like addiction itself, but then the abstinence being the only Road and if someone doesn’t do that, there’s so much, well that’s not recovery and the stigma that we face as well in that and yeah, I’m so sorry that you had that stigma at such a terrible time in your life, right?

17:25

That’s when you Want people to wrap their arms around you to catch you not to put you into that spiral of Shame.

And it just highlights that there is a big gap.

Yeah.

17:41

And you and I have spoken about it as well.

We are all just people.

We are just people.

And I know myself, if I rewind, eight years, whatever, if I saw someone in a bad way On my way to work and I can say someone’s drinking and I would be Oh I thought so poorly of that person and it makes me upset at myself that I had that judgment and me and almost feel like crying now.

18:16

I like I did look at that person with judgment.

How could she get there?

And and when you see people not in a good way when you’re out and about and God not got no self-control and All of that.

And then now more recently and the last kind of 56 years that someone’s brother, that someone’s daughter, someone’s mum.

18:39

It’s someone’s person.

How did they get there?

And how has that put and, like, leading with compassion, leading with curiosity and we’ve spoken about it?

No one is immune from this.

18:55

It is not too many things.

Need to happen in your life for you to find yourself in a bad situation and you can go either way and a lot of what I think and where I experience stigma and shame and myself, but what I want to catch a diction and not hang around those people that have that addiction thing.

19:20

I don’t want to be hatching that and where no one is immune.

This does not discriminate.

And does not care if you went to private school, public school, if you grew up on this side of the street that side of the street, if your parents were together, not together.

19:37

If you grew up in community housing or the best suburb in the city, like it doesn’t care.

And if we can just get back to people, people, people people, these are our people, And lead with that and be understanding, and be compassionate and then without the other tools we can put in place, so that we keep ourselves safe.

20:04

Physically mentally emotionally along the way lead with people.

Yeah, I’m not even going to add anything to that because I think you covered it all.

That’s exactly how I feel.

And I think it what you’re saying is really beautiful that just getting down to the common Humanity.

20:24

I’ve what we’re all going through and just that it really could be acid anytime that I’m really just so obvious to me, let’s talk about shame now.

So stigma leads to shame.

I mean, that those stigmatized beliefs that are in our society.

20:44

So, how did you experience shame as a result of being in a marriage with somebody who’s struggling with addiction?

I’m anyways.

It’s the exclusion.

I think exclusion of being invited to things, I have felt my children have been excluded from things and I hadn’t really experienced that until more recently actually as I’ve been more public, and I think when you keep the facade, people are more comfortable with you.

21:17

Pretending things are a certain way, despite the reality being completely different, then You being honest and open with.

Obviously, some filters people are more comfortable with pretending.

People are more comfortable with you’ve got the mask on of, everything’s okay lalalalala.

21:38

But we knew kind of get honest, it’s like, let’s not so great and so just excluded I think is the big one the disconnection and not everyone and obviously my Myself included, we’re all going through our own periods of denial and we would rather have the pretense of what it looks like.

22:01

If things could be good and pretend that way, but yet exclusion, I think is the biggest thing and that’s hard, right?

Because as you had already said, we are humans.

We have built, we need connection.

We want to be accepted by the pack, you know, going back to when the Primal days of you had to be, Included in your pack.

22:26

Otherwise you would die you had to be to be excluded was literally a case of life or death.

So now we still want to be included, you want to be accepted into our circles and to our community.

And to be honest about something that’s going on that people don’t really understand.

22:44

And they think as a moral failing, brings up a lot of exclusion and it really highlights who your people are.

Our which is brutal when you’re going through a very tough time, and then you’ve like got the, they’re not my people, I thought they were tens out there, Notch situation, and that is hard.

23:07

But in when we go into our values, shame keeps you from, I think living true to your values.

It to come up against shame, sometimes daily, and to admit is tough stuff.

Going on, it’s not great.

23:23

Is that constant battle with being authentic and connecting with people and that authentic way as opposed to what we may have done in the past with our masks on everything’s fine so good pretending but yeah for me definitely shame isolation.

23:40

Yeah I was just thinking about when you were talking about everybody being more comfortable with basically a lie than the truth.

I have been very aware of the last couple of years.

I’ve gone through like just this barrage dealing with divorce, then breast cancer that my daughter passing away, like in all of these things are uncomfortable for networks, not quite so much, but breast cancer dealing with a child lost.

24:10

Like, I mean, I, it’s uncomfortable for me.

I don’t even know how to help other people after I’ve been through it, right?

But I just decided at some point like I wasn’t going to absorb all the discomfort for buddy.

This is my experience and what I’m going through and I’m not going to make it so that I’m the one comforting, everybody all the time.

24:34

And I’m going to be really honest about how I feel like that this is hard and that it sucks and I’m not going to like, if I am feeling really, really bad.

But I’m just going to be honest about that.

24:50

And if it pushes people away, Then those aren’t my people.

Now that is not how I started this journey, right?

I was doing the same thing.

I like I said, I was ashamed, I kept it to myself, nobody at work, knew what I was going through.

25:08

Very few family members.

I think that honestly I wasn’t even like allowing myself to see the full truth of it because if this is part of it was like if I see it then what am I going to do?

25:24

Because I don’t know what to do about it.

I don’t have any way to help her and so then I was keeping everything quiet but I think like since I’ve just opened this door of sharing my whole life with the world that going through this process, I was like, all right, I’m just I’m going to be honest about everything going forward or as much as possible.

25:49

Like, I don’t have to do with everything, but But I don’t think that I’m helping anybody or helping change that situation.

If I’m not totally honest about what I’m experiencing because then if I act like I’m okay.

And then that parent person experiences something like that, they’re going to think something’s wrong with them, because they’re not.

26:09

Okay, or they’re not going to be able to support somebody else who’s going through it because they think that they should be okay.

Like, I lied and said I was so I think that just if we would I’ll just be more honest with each other.

It would make it so much easier.

26:26

Oh my gosh.

Imagine so beautiful.

And then what you just said reminded me of some sorts that I had years ago and my loved ones, addiction had me on my knees light beside myself.

I did not know what to do, and you it’s that complete this empowerment.

26:44

And you’ve got someone who is not well, them themselves behaving in ways that are Usual and not who you know them to be.

And it’s such a declining situation, just goes from being a bit.

27:00

Something’s not quite right here, a bit weird.

There’s some things I don’t really know and over time if they keep going on that road, it can get so terrible and when you’re an isolation and feel the shame and don’t know what to do, you are on your knees.

27:21

And your thoughts that went through my head like you know, like blaming myself and I must be the only person.

Like I knew not rationally.

I was but I don’t think I had a full comprehension of how prevalent this was because no one speaks about it.

27:39

And the whole not me, this is not happening to my family.

This is not what I signed up for like, absolutely not, but I was on my knees and I just so much like It’s just me, there’s a few other people maybe but now obviously you and I both know, there are loads of other mothers out.

28:02

There are other fathers who were on their knees with their children and struggling with their children.

And I know there are loads of millions.

There’s millions of Partners.

Wives girlfriends fiancé is husbands on their knees with this at home behind Stores, just at a loss struggling and what you said before around the how the shame plays out and co-workers and support.

28:32

And I just had this flashback of the first time, my husband went to rehab and that’s how be a conversation for another time.

But I was so grateful.

Relieved!

Elated that!

Yay!

We had finally got here and obviously it was not the magic sauce that we were all hoping for And that’s another conversation.

28:53

However, it was just this surreal day in my life, where husband was in the passenger seat through little people in the back.

Drop one person, drop the little people off at daycare, we drove to the city, drop my husband off at his rehab hospital.

29:11

I parked the car went to work and I was just like, what the hell and just got to work set up my desk.

And I was just Couldn’t didn’t say anything to anyone and I had been.

And I’d started detox.

29:27

The detox process has started at home which was horrible and probably one of the worst experiences that I lived through.

And I was like, I’ve just had the one of the worst, two days of my life and this detox process and then I’ve just done this dropping, the kids at daycare has been to rehab.

29:45

And here I am at my desk about to do my accounting things and it’s like I just needed some support to be able to speak my truth and I couldn’t I’m just having this.

Memory.

30:02

That makes me emotional to think about, Sitting at my desk one day, I had my hat, my door was shut, but I didn’t know what else to do.

Other than to go to work.

My daughter was going to behave Behavior, Health hospital for probably the third or fourth time, and like there was nothing else to do to, go to work and sit there with my door shut and cry while I worked like and there’s you were doing it.

30:33

Well, I was doing it, you know, too.

Oh, and there’s that opportunity for support there.

That’s missed.

If you don’t share, what’s going on in your life.

And I could just, and I’ve dropped my daughter off it rehab so many times, it’s not so many times enough.

30:51

It is hard, like, you think it’s going to be this wonderful joyous moment, but it just, it’s just another level of fear and brings up all these other things.

Now, And then for me, you know, getting her there, there’s the all the use along the way and the fear of what’s going to happen.

31:14

Are they really going to get out of the car?

I mean, it’s just such a hard experience, and then just it just goes to show how we get in this mode of trying to make it through life and Carry On, and do these everyday things, the most abnormal on everyday, things are happening in our lives.

31:36

Oh my goodness.

Yes.

And I think we have so many moments like that along the way, and on this particular drive, to rehab with stop at the coffee shop along the way.

And my husband had got out to get the coffee’s, and he was taking a long time, and the thought that went through my head was, he’s done a runner.

31:58

He’s got into the coffee shop and going out the back door, he hadn’t.

But that was my, as he is, he coming back.

Ugh.

You know like what do we do here?

And that was just the crazy thoughts that go on in your mind and it is an opportunity for support and going through the everyday stuff whilst and navigating this I don’t even know what you call like such as so ongoing but it’s so hard and just having the pretense of everyday life without that authenticity and I remember taking my children to birthday parties.

32:35

Not knowing where my husband was and having to turn up and that way.

And people would ask, how is it?

How is everybody how was it on that are good?

Obviously, a kid’s birthday party is not the moment to lay that out but just but I wouldn’t have anyway.

32:57

And just having to carry on with life and I was sharing with someone else recently about how numb I became a myself.

And this is what I think is the unknown how much this impacts the loved ones?

33:15

How much this impacts our being our house?

And our ability to show up live life.

Do the things and I remember having little little people, and being in a playground and just being completely numb.

I was going through the motions of what I needed to do, to take them feed them, bathe them play.

33:37

But I was so numb hard to beat a playground with a little people and be a fully embodied in the moment and present when your person is in such a bad.

Why I need art know what that day is going to bring what that night is going to bring.

33:53

And I think we need to speak more about this so that people feel more seen and they know they’re not alone and have compassion for ourselves for how hard.

There’s that.

Yeah, yeah.

Like I hadn’t thought of that memory and a long time, obviously it’s like emotional still.

34:14

And that, you know, I’m just sitting here having compassion for myself.

L for this new experience.

But that’s a learned skill, right?

I’m sure it’s a skill that you’ve had to learn as well but I want to talk about the other side of stigma for just a minute because I think that’s important too is like once I got over my or shame, once I got over my shame and released a lot of the stigmatized beliefs, which is an ongoing process.

34:43

But I started really setting the tone for how people Sighs.

Mmm.

And how people saw my daughter?

I changed how I talked about her.

I talked about her respectfully and about the good things about her and I stopped focusing on all of the things that I wanted to change about her and went back to Loving Her unconditionally thinking.

35:12

She was amazing just like I had before and like instead of feeling that sense of shame that I felt like every time we went to a counselor or were in court or wherever it was, it was like I’m going to walk in here with my head held high because I’m the mother of this amazing human and I’m just doing the best job that I can.

35:38

And so, is she in this right now is her best which isn’t then rate and like, even when we would go to the doctor, I With to me, bring an energy into the room that brought respect from the people that were there to help and support us 99% of the time.

36:01

There’s probably only one experience I can think of where I felt disrespected and a hospital setting and it wasn’t actually too bad.

So and I think that, I just wanted to felt the need to throw that in there that we can set the tone.

36:18

Tone for how we experience everything and for how the people around us experienced us and our circumstance.

And that gives us a lot more power and it changes the perception of everybody around us Tralee and at to us and if paper listening and that I like, it feels impossible, you can get there and it’s challenging your own thoughts challenging the way you think about things.

36:47

And Asking yourself.

How does this sit with me and how does this sit with me?

And you and I have spoken about it.

I’ve been set at a dinner table before and someone was talking about another family and they referred to this other person as this person’s druggie daughter and my whole body just could have been sick.

37:15

And I said, and I spoke up and I said do you just mean their Otter and then inserted her name.

That’s what we can do.

Not only for ourselves, but for other people.

And when people are throwing judgment and shame and stigma at people who they don’t even know.

37:35

Who did you see how she was?

Showing up at the school party?

The other night?

Sure.

Why don’t you leave with compassion?

Why don’t you leave with curiosity, go and Chicken on that person.

And it’s not to say that they They might come be honest and say yeah I’m struggling I’m navigating this hard thing at work or my kids or whatever it is and this is what I’m doing you know not to say that that’s going to happen but throw it out there, throw out.

38:03

If you met get into humanity and throw people some lifelines it could you could be the one if you leave with curiosity and you lie with compassion and you lie with humanity and you see someone who is Not in a good way instead of judging them, instead of stigmatizing their behavior, she can ask, how they are, do they need anything and you might be the person that helps them.

38:33

Take that first step to ask for help or two.

You might be that first step for that person, but when we throw out, shame and stigma and all that judgment, all we’re doing is Is further pushing people away from seeking support.

38:51

Yeah, yes.

Amanda all that.

So I think this is a great segue into values, right?

Because I think that that was underlying what we both just talked about the values that we’ve tuned into in this process and for me tuned out of it some points as well.

39:10

But like, when did values come into play for you?

And like, how did you identify them as part of your recovery process?

I think for me values for just so wishy-washy and a blur and the background and at the start, I always thought I was an honest person.

39:30

And I thought the best of people and I did have some underlying values, but I wasn’t really in shoe nor a line to them and then we’re navigating someone else’s problematic Behavior.

39:45

You as a result of Of the crazy-making chaotic crisis situation.

And with that any better tools and strategies, you do find yourself behaving and some unusual ways and reacting and find yourself in the crazy.

40:04

And so, it was, I guess in my own behavior.

At some point I was like, this is not how I am the snooping, the invading someone’s privacy looking in someone’s phone.

Searching around the house for evidence yelling, screaming name-calling shaming and manipulating threatening behavior from myself.

40:28

If you don’t do this, I’m going to do this or all of that stuff.

And that to me was like, and again, with the slow decline, didn’t didn’t go from being okay?

To all the sudden I’m doing all of the stuff it was just well, if I find the evidence to support what I know to be true and I bring this to my Person.

40:47

And I show them that hey, I know this is what’s going on.

Can you see?

This is the problem.

Now, look at all this evidence I’ve got, you know, like you’re preparing for some kind of clot presentation of.

I’ve got my video, I’ve got my images.

I’ve got my data here to present my PowerPoint presentation.

41:06

Like, can you see there’s a problem now, like you just go crazy and it was there, I think escalation of that situation and myself that I thought this.

Not how I am.

Who Am I, who is Amanda?

And I wanted to be Integrity honesty, authenticity, and have stability security, health, family.

41:31

All of those things relationships and I was not living in line with any of that.

So what did I need to do?

And I think we’ve spoken about this before, there’s no blueprint here.

There’s no do this step, and then do the step and then you will be well.

41:47

You’re Person as well.

And yeah, we get to the Finish Line.

It’s like so I did this and I encourage others.

Do this to, if you get clear on your values, who are you?

What is your identity?

Let that be your stuff Noster, let that be your true, north and that guides your behavior is someone with Integrity that they yell at people.

42:13

Do they shame people?

Do they manipulate control?

No.

Do they go snooping around, someone’s belongings and their backpacks and to their emails?

No, they don’t.

And as someone who is honest and wants to live authentically lie to people, they don’t, they do their best to show up as themselves as much as possible and as much as appropriate and the situation, and let that be your guide.

42:43

It’s not easy.

It is not easy.

And even now I still find my I catch myself, I feel like a bit of a heart skip, when I share something or people say you’re at a party or a gathering or a school event and it’s the whole, what do you do with a minor addiction relationship coach?

43:03

And it’s like what people say you’re an accountant.

Oh yeah, that’s all good.

No thing.

And then you say you’re an addiction relationship coach and you help support women that have been impacted by their Partners addiction.

And then the next question how did you get into that?

43:20

And well, I’ve got a lived experience and it’s like silence.

It’s a skip as a heartbeat Skip and it gets easier in.

Like you said, The more language we put to ourselves and I speak about my husband and my children’s dad, he’s good person, he’s a good person and like you said, he’s got amazing qualities.

43:44

He does.

This is not who he is.

And going back to language, edit in people, use that term and I will put my hand up.

I used to use it about four or five years ago.

Myself gross a lot better now.

And I read some of my content on Instagram, I’m, and I’ve used that term my addict husband, it’s like, oh my gosh, that’s I’m appalled on myself because I know better.

44:07

Now he is not that it is not who he is and I’m not the wife of an addict.

A wife.

I’m a mum, I’m a professional.

I’m a friend.

I’m a, at the school.

44:23

I’m a volunteer.

This is not who we are so changing the language around that and this is not your story.

So people are listening and they feel on their knees with this and feel like it’s going to last.

This is going to be their situation forever.

It doesn’t have to be.

44:39

This is not who you are, this is a sentence in your story.

A chapter, a paragraph.

This is not the whole book, you are more than this.

And if you feel lost, go back to your values and let that be your guide, as to the way to get through this and feel better in yourself.

44:57

I love this is not who they are, and it’s not who you are for me.

I really, I think I’ve thought a lot about like what made me take advice that didn’t set well with me and it was fear, right?

45:16

So there was the show Shame of, you know, there’s the stigma that belief system and then the shame that comes from that that it must be my fault.

I must have done something wrong which then leads to a lack of trust in me.

Because how can I trust myself?

45:32

If this is happening in my family I can’t be trusted and then so I’m afraid to listen to myself and then I’m taking advice.

That doesn’t make sense to me, doesn’t feel right to me.

Feels absolutely.

Really awful is, I’m carrying it out.

45:49

It’s actually making me feel worse.

It’s pushing my daughter away from me, pushing her even more into her substance use making her run away.

All these other things, but because I can’t trust myself and I haven’t actually stopped to really look inside of myself and question everything that’s happening.

46:15

I’m just this forward move.

Adding machine trying to fix everything.

Then that’s what really pushed me away from my values.

And in order to get back in touch with them, I had to stop and stopping felt really wrong to, but it was, it was the beginning and I say stop like stopping forcing everything stopping going to all these doctors every week and just like, giving us both a break and that in that blank space, we know are felt like I was giving Yup.

46:47

But I finally created some space where I could look inside of myself and course-correct and start to find help that actually did a line with my values.

Get in touch with them, learn to start trusting myself again and going outside of myself like getting information from other people, but then checking in with myself first.

47:14

So using discernment.

On the information that I was gathering, if it felt right with me and it was like kind of like following this trail of breadcrumbs to figure all of this out.

But in the end, what it led to was me being trustworthy myself predictable consistent because like you said that North Star, like then when you’re following that, then you are always on the right course.

47:47

And that’s really what changed things for me, changed my experience.

It changed my daughter’s experience, that’s why she started responding well to me because she felt loved and seen and heard and accepted all of those things that she needed from me for so long.

48:05

And it’s just interesting, how fear can really come between us and our values.

But it all, it’s all this vicious cycle.

To me of stigma shame, fear leaving your values.

48:22

And that’s why I think this was such a, great topic choice for us today, because it doesn’t matter who your loved one is.

I know there’s people that are listening to this that have different relationships.

Not just kids, not just spouses.

All kinds of lung ones dealing with substance use of some sort.

48:42

So we and we all experience these very similar.

Equations.

So that this will be so helpful for anybody in any situation because it’s like, it’s Universal.

48:57

It’s kind of like, almost like this.

You know how?

When you run a computer program, there’s a script that starts running when you push a button and it’s like, kind of like, when we all come in contact, with addiction in our lives.

Like we all start running the same programs and our Bria acting similarly tightly and Des, what you said there?

49:17

The fear so much is led by fear and it’s the lack of trust with ourselves that we know because we haven’t known and then we just want someone give me what?

Tell me what to do.

Tell me what to do, I will do it.

49:34

I will do anything, tell me what to do.

And then so we look to professionals to give us the best advice because they are the professionals that are qualified.

They are experts.

They have the expertise that we are seeking.

Amazing.

Tell me what to do and what I say to.

49:52

A lot of people is one of the biggest casualties of addiction.

From our perspective is our loss of trust with ourselves, not always with our partner or our loved one because yes we can lose trust with them because of all the lying and we know why they lie the shame, but loss of trust with ourselves.

50:10

So we look to others and not even professional, sometimes people in our sir Cool?

And we lit those words, those thoughts opinions of others be louder than our own and the kindest thing we can do for ourselves and our loved ones is tune back in.

50:32

Like you just said, does this sit with how does this sit with me and not everything that works?

For other people is going to work for you because it doesn’t align to your values.

It doesn’t align to what is okay with you.

And You and I have spoken about this.

50:48

Only, you have to go to bed with the decisions that you have made that day.

Nobody else not the professionals, not the friends, not the family only.

You need to go to bed each night with the decisions that you’ve made.

So if you can go to bed with the choices and decisions, you’ve made that day, then they were the right decisions to make that day and the more we can lean and Trust in ourselves.

51:15

The more we are getting to that North Star Yeah, I think that’s a great place to end.

Thank you so much for your time today and sharing your experience and all that.

You’ve learned how do people get a hold of you or find you if they want to find out more about you?

51:32

And I’ll put it in the show notes to the, I am on Instagram at addiction makes three and my website www.addic7ed.com or you can send me an email at Amanda at addiction.

51:50

Makes three.com.

Alright.

Thank you so much.

Thank you so much for having me.

Heather.

Thank you for listening to this episode.

If you want to learn more about my work, go to Heather.

Ross coaching.com if you want to help other parents who are struggling with a child’s addiction, you can do it two different ways.

52:10

First, you can share the podcast with them directly or you can share it on your social media second.

You can leave a review, talk to you next week.

Thank you for listening to this episode.

If you want to learn more about my work, go to Heather.

Ross coaching.com if you want to help other parents who are struggling with a child’s addiction, you can do it two different ways.

First, you can share the podcast with them directly or you can share it on your social media second.

You can leave a review, talk to you next week.