Episode 30 Celebrating Your Life In The Middle Of Addiction

Living While Loving Your Child Through Addiction
Living While Loving Your Child Through Addiction
Episode 30 Celebrating Your Life In The Middle Of Addiction

Guest Kelly Hatcher and I discuss her experience being the mother of a child struggling with addiction. 

In this episode we discuss:

  • How Kelly reached a place of unconditional love for her son
  • How she set some strong boundaries
  • How she dealt with her son’s homelessness & not knowing where he was
  • Experiencing a child’s addiction as a single parent

If you want to get in touch with Kelly:



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This transcript has not been formatted or edited.


I’m Heather and this is the Living With Addiction podcast where I show you how you have more power than you realize when it comes to helping yourself and your child that’s struggling with addiction.


Hey everybody. So today my guest is Kelly Hatcher. And as I was researching her, which is funny because we’ve become friends, but I was actually researching what her life has been like with her son’s addiction because we really haven’t talked about it much. And so then I thought about like, why haven’t we talked about it? And I realized that we’re both really focused on our future and not our past.


And a lot of our conversations are about like what we’re creating in our lives right now. So I loved having that realization because it’s just a way, another way that I see where we’re both living exactly the life that we’re telling our clients that they can live too. So I love seeing how we really are living that example. And both of our kids are in rehab right now, but even if they weren’t,


our lives wouldn’t be any different. Like our lives don’t change because of what’s going on with our kids. We’re both very focused on creating intentionally. And I think that it’s, you know, I can say that we were, we’d both, it’s as if the same as it would be with any other kid. Like, of course your child has some effect on your life. You want to take time out for them, but outside of that, we don’t go through that ebb and flow of.


our life is dependent on what’s going on with our kids. And I think that that’s an amazing thing to be able to share with the audience. Cause I know when you’re in that place of, it feels like their addiction is totally controlling their life. It’s hard to believe that it’s possible to live without the addiction controlling their life. So that’s why I’m excited to have you on today. And Kelly, do you want to introduce yourself? I would.


Good morning. Good afternoon, wherever we are in the day. I am Kelly Hatcher. I am a single mom of two boys a 21 year old and an almost 23 year old in a few weeks and my oldest is still after we’re going on ten years this month of Struggling with drugs started with weed obviously went kept going and it just kept going and from pills to an


Fortunately, heroin, even more unfortunately than fentanyl, benzos. And now I think he’s more of like just the garbage can’t. Like anything anybody would throw at him, he would try. So it just progressively has gotten worse through the years. He’s been in over 16 rehabs. I couldn’t even tell you how many detoxes.


but it’s been a journey. Doing this alone is really challenging. My other son is a type one diabetic. And so they both have diseases and I have to handle both diseases differently. And I’ve learned through the years as a view, I don’t have control of this. This is their journey. And when they were younger and kids and living in the house, definitely mama bear took over. But


As of now, I love where you and I both are. Like we were celebrating our lives and we are living for the most part, joyful lives. I mean, obviously we all have hiccups. That’s the 50-50 split, but I love where we are because I know that feeling where I was, where addiction controlled my life. And it’s so.


It’s so much easier and rewarding being able to smile again and be happy with other people and not constantly being worried of, is he alive? Is he on the streets? Is he shooting up? There’s so much worry and fear and I don’t live that life anymore. So it’s really, really exciting.


Yeah. And we have in common that we both like to laugh and keep things light, even doesn’t really matter what’s going on. I mean, it’s all up for jokes and whatever’s happening in our lives. And I love that we have that in common too, because this, we can get stuck living in such a state of stress and fight or flight. And, but what was your moment?


that made you realize I’ve got to change. Like I can’t live this way anymore. I was turning everybody off in my life. Like I didn’t feel like anybody understood what I was going through. And so I just became really angry at the world. And honestly, I started drinking way too much because I didn’t want to deal with it. And so for me,


Thankfully, I do not have that addictive gene where I, I couldn’t stop on my own. I could, but it was literally like, holy shit, I need help. And found a therapist and then found a coach and kind of just opened my eyes to, I am not taking care of myself. Like I am so a fixer. My master’s degree is in counseling. So my whole…


you know, 28 years in education and doing social emotional counseling with kids has been helping others. And I thought I could help my own kids. I truly thought I can fix him. I know how to fix him. I’ve got the tools. Yeah. I was only fully myself. I never was able to fix him nor my other son. I can’t fix diabetes. If I could, I’d be a millionaire. So learning that


I needed to take care of myself. I needed to take off the tiara of the enabling queen and I was queen, not princess. I was a queen of enabling. And just kind of moving the blinders away and realizing this is not me. This is Jake. This is not me. This is Ian. So I had to kind of learn how to take care of myself for honestly the first time. I’ve never truly taken care of myself.


and it just, I mean, sparks fireworks. Like I was like, holy crap, I need this for me. And it feels so good to be where I’m at now. I mean, and I don’t wanna sound like it’s a pill or something that I’ve taken that hallelujah cause it definitely is a daily working at this of how to do this.


Yeah. And you think about how much time we spent wrapped up in what we were going through before the amount of time that we spend working on ourselves really doesn’t even compare, but it’s interesting how when, when somebody is facing that kind of change, it seems like it’s going to be a lot of work, but that work is really nothing compared to what we were going through before.


night and day, night and day. It feels good. And the work we were doing for both of us was just dredging through the trenches. I felt like, like, give me my shovel and let me just keep moving the crap out of the way because I’m not getting ahead. I was never getting ahead.


Yeah, that was an awful feeling of that overwhelm. And like, no matter how hard I worked, I used to say it was like playing that game whack-a-mole. Like, you know, where all the moles come up and you have to whack. And it just felt like every time I hit one, five more popped up. I mean, it was just like an endless game of whack-a-mole. And every once in a while, if I could just whack my kid in the head, maybe it would change things. Yeah, that did not work.


And so how did you feel about yourself as a mom before you made those changes? Cause I know that that’s another really hard part of it too. Like I felt like such a failure. And I think part of when you feel like a failure and you’re so down, it makes it even harder to make that change. But you obviously weren’t able to pull yourself out of that. But what were you feeling like before you made those changes? So before…


Jake’s addiction, I was the kick-ass mom. Like I am the mom that I worked full-time in education, whether it was teaching or counseling. I was PTA president of the elementary schools they went to. I was team mom for every single sport. I was the make breakfast every morning, pack the lunch. My kids never bought lunch, had the dinner. Like I was literally June Cleaver. And…


I thought I kicked butt at it. I really did. Once the addiction, and I was also going through a divorce at the time the addiction started. So it was really, really hard because many people judged me on my actions and what I was doing. And so I took everybody’s thoughts of…


What a bad mom I am. How dare I do this? This is your fault. He’s using drugs. And I lived in those spots of others for years and years and years. And those are what literally jacked me up because then I believed Jake started using weed because of me. Like this is how he’s dealing with the divorce. And obviously I’ve learned much more from that of-


No, those were just other people’s thoughts. And I didn’t have control of those, but it wrecked me. It wrecked me for a long time. And I just felt like I’m doing everything I can to help you. Like I will drive you 12 hours to meetings and take you to this rehab. I took out loans to find the best rehabs. And let me just tell you, the best rehabs sometimes are not the best rehabs. And it just, you know, financially was draining.


I was just so sick.


I was like, I’m not going to be a mom anymore. I’m going to be a mom. I’m going to be a mom


even though sometimes I truly do hate him. I like 100%. I hate him, but I will never stop loving him. I tell him all the time, I will always be your biggest cheerleader, always. But sometimes I just don’t like who you are. But I can still love you. So I feel that now, I mean, you and I just spoke, I’m going to see him this weekend. And he called me and asked me to come visit him. And…


I wait, I wait for those type of things. So, you know, we text on occasion, but it’s not a daily, where are you? Do you want to see me? What can I do? What, you know, it was always like that before. And now it’s like, yeah, Jake, I’d love to come see you. So it’s, I’ve taken that step back. I moved since his last two rehabs and he still to this day doesn’t know where I live. So for me, that’s just a boundary.


I’m not going to have that again. I’m not


I’ve learned my lesson. It only took 5,362 times, but now I’ve learned it. And so it’s setting those boundaries and it feels good. Yeah, I can still remember when I really got it for the first time, my daughter had stolen some of my checks and taken them to the bank to cash them. And all of the other times before that,


it just didn’t hit me that she, how much she had really changed to do these things. Or I was just still in such denial about her addiction, about how far she was going to be willing to go to get money to feed her addiction. In that moment though, while painful, it was also very empowering.


because that was when I started making changes that protected both of us. And when I started setting boundaries like you just talked about, that’s a big boundary. I know that that would be really tough for a lot of parents to face that. They would feel guilty. Did you struggle with guilt or anything like that initially? Or I mean, how do you deal with that? Yeah, for sure. For sure I did because my thing, even when he was in high school and he didn’t follow curfew,


I knew he was using already. And I lived in a town where I was calling police. The police knew me all by name. They would be at my house too many times, but they had told me if I just locked the doors because he was underage, I had to put out a sleeping bag and maybe a glass of water or a bottle of water and a granola bar. No pillow, no nothing. And I was appalled for the first few times like.


Who would do that? Who would do such a thing? Like that is so horrible. Well, yeah, I did that numerous times because it’s like, hey, my house, my rules, but it’s hard at first. It’s really, really hard. And when you and I, you know, coach families, they are like, they think I’m a hard ass bitch some of the time in their language, but you have to be to protect yourself until you get to a point where…


No, I’m not. I’m not that person. I still love him to death, but these are my rules and boundaries. This is the guidelines for me and he knows what they are. So you either accept it or you don’t. It’s his choice. So it’s been, it’s a journey. Yeah. And I can see how you can either be up all night.


worried and angry and frustrated and pacing the floor waiting for him to get home or you can put the sleeping bag and drink in granola bar outside and go to bed and get a good night’s sleep and wake up refreshed in the morning. Right. And you might still get the banging on the door and the screaming and the yelling and open the door which I did get numerous times but after a while he just learned you can yell and scream I call the police and


They calmed him down. They never took him away, but they would calm him down and say, dude, these are your options. Get off the property or get in the backyard and shut up. And most of the times he went in the backyard and fell asleep. So it’s one of those things that we learn. And the denial, like you were talking about your daughter stealing the checks, I did the same thing. I was in complete denial. I was noticing like,


$400 at a time was taken out of my account. And of course I asked him, he’s like, I would never steal money from you. Are you crazy? Like I thought I was losing my mind. Like where, what’s happening? To the point of I had to call the police and said, I think I have some identity theft, something’s going on. The bank had to then, they had to file a report. They had to get all of this information. And two weeks later, they had me come in.


to view the cameras. Oh. See if I could recognize. Now I’ve got the police, I’ve got the head people of the Bank of America, and I walk in and watch the videos and see my little turd son withdrawing. And I just start bawling, crying. I mean, it is such a gut or punch to the gut. Is that what it’s called? Yeah. I think literally it sucks. And it was like.


I’m like,


The police officer even said like, you can press charges, but because she’s a minor, you’re going to be forced to get her a lawyer and you’re going to have to show up in court with her every time. And it’s going to cost you a fortune. Jing, ching, ching. Yeah. So just think about it before you do it. And you know, there was another time that she ran away. The first time she ran away with that. I was in an all out panic. It, it, you know, it was a little less panic every time she ran away after that. But I went to the bank because she went and took out money.


And I didn’t know what she was wearing. So I had to get their help to find, to get video of her just so I could see what clothes she was wearing. So I’ve experienced that sitting in the bank with that stinking awful. It used to be humiliation I felt every time that happened. So I totally get what a humbling experience that is. Yeah. And it’s hard because I think so many people picture.


someone being a drug addict or addicted to pain pills or whatever you wanna say is this pond scum that lives on the streets. And when you say it’s your child, it’s like people, oh, I’m so, so sorry. I had a guy working at my house yesterday who said, yeah, luckily my wife was able to stay home. So our kids turned out well.


And I just, I had to bite my tongue because I’m like, dude, do you really think having a stay at home mom’s gonna really change it? But I just thought, okay, you know what? No, I don’t need to battle this. It’s not my battle to fight. So, but people I think are, I don’t want to say ignorant cause that’s, that’s rude, but oblivious. I’m going to use that word. It sounds nicer. Understanding that it, it, addictions everywhere, everywhere. And.


it doesn’t matter what race or financial level you’re at, it can happen. And unfortunately it’s happened to both of us with our children. And I just, I’ve learned so much and not that I would want this life to be the way it is and him struggling, but it is what it is. And I can’t change that part. So we just kind of push through and we laugh a lot. And I love having you in my life now


I can call you because you get me. You get, yep. Been there, done that. Yes. Yeah. We’ve had many laughs about what we’re going through. And I, but I used to be one of those oblivious people. I was the worst. I was so judgmental. I really believed that I could out parent any life problems that if I was a good enough mom, my daughter would not have to deal with any kind of addiction. And so of course that belief created.


so much more pain in me when she did become addicted. Cause then of course I had to believe that it was my fault because if it was my job to stop it from happening, that it was my fault because it happened. But I gained so much more compassion. And anytime I see somebody dealing with addiction, I have compassion for them and their family. And even like when I see a homeless person, I feel, I just think.


And so I just have given me such a different outlook on so many parts of life. Yeah. Homelessness to me is I used to have the McDonald’s coupons in my car and my boys when they were little would say, mom, let’s give this guy on the corner. A coupon.


but my son was homeless in Portland for seven months. He was homeless in San Diego. And for me, I walked the streets looking for my son. And seeing so many young kids that are homeless in San Diego, it was heart-wrenching, completely heart-wrenching. Some of the boys actually said they saw him the day before, which put my heart at relief that he was still alive. And I ended up


I mean,


Socks are the number one need for homeless people. So I have always, I always have backpacks in my car. So any corner, if I see someone, I give them a backpack because I just, that was my kid. And I would never give money, not in a million years but I will give you toiletries and I will give you socks because I want you to know you’re cared for like somebody’s thinking about you.


Yeah, that definitely tugs at my heart because my daughter, you know, she always carried a backpack. And I think of that differently. Now, every time I see somebody walking with a backpack, I wonder, and I didn’t have to deal with near the level of homelessness that you did. So can you I know that that is most parents like one of their top fears.


So how did you deal with that during that seven months? Was this before you started your own recovery or after? It was literally while I was going to therapy. He was up in Portland for the seven months. And I moved him to Portland for a sober living house because I thought, get out of the state of California. That will be smart. I was a smart mom. I was really smart.


knowing that Portland is the number one heroin capital and where all the needles. And what do you know? He really liked heroin when he got there. So he got kicked out of the rehab. I don’t know. He’s made it for like five months, then got kicked out and then lived on the streets. We still had communication. I was still able to talk to him until it got really bad and everything was stolen from him. So when I could not find him,


I was calling hospitals, I was calling police stations, I was calling morgues. I thought my son was dead and it was horrible because I didn’t have answers. And any police station said, here in Portland, you will never find your child. If he’s dead, they won’t identify him. He’s kind of like a Jane Doe and you’ll never find him. Like they put the final like closure that…


I lost my kid and I don’t know where he was. And by chance I was driving to work one day and a phone number that I didn’t recognize, a private number called and it was his voice. And I literally thought I was gonna get a, I just started bawling, had to pull over on the side of the road and he wanted help and he didn’t have any ID. He couldn’t even get into a detox and he had long blonde dreadlocks and.


He was infested with lice. So nobody would take him because he had lice. I mean, it was, you know, when people say rock bottoms, I truly don’t believe in rock bottoms anymore. But to me at that time, that was rock bottom. Like you can’t get worse than this. Yeah, he could. And he did. And it’s just, I mean, I look at homelessness such in a different light. And so many of the kids would say,


your mom is like, look at, she’s here looking like she wants to help you. I wish my mom, like, I wish more parents, but I don’t think it’s like parents are giving up. I think parents just don’t know where to look. How do you find your child when they’re out there and they’re using and they’re living on the streets? It’s just, it’s a scary feeling. Yeah, that is definitely, I can’t even, that’s a rough story. I would have really struggled with that myself. It’s hard for me to


about you going through that. And I know that, um, you know, there’s probably, there could be somebody who ends up listening to this that’s in that situation. And you said, so after he called, did you go, is that when you went looking for him or had you been looking for him before that? So when he was in Portland, because I’ve never, I’ve never been to Portland, I didn’t even know where to, so mine was here in San Diego, just calling.


all the places. When I went looking for him is a few years later when he was living in San Diego. And then he was in the hospital during COVID for 42 days with a lung infection and his body was going into sepsis and he chose to leave the hospital. And so the doctors were calling me saying, he will die. He will die within a week’s period of time if you can’t find him. And so that was kind of like,


Holy crap, like I need to get his butt back in here. So that was obviously recently. So he, finding him was, you know, and I gave him an option. I brought a backpack with blankets and clothes and a new pair of socks and shoes and all of that. And I said, here’s your two options. You can get in the car and I can drive you straight to a detox right this minute, or I can leave you.


and I can give you this backpack and hopefully it’ll keep you warm tonight. Cause it was, it was around November. So, I mean, we’re in San Diego, but it was, you know, got down in the forties and it took three hours of talking to him and not even convincing him. I didn’t want to be that person. I had a girlfriend who, you know, her kids are not users and she was, I’m like, all right, we need to go. And she’s like, what?


What do you mean? We’re going to leave him here? We can’t leave him. We finally found him. And she’s crying and I’m like, he has to be wanting to do this. I can’t, he has to want this. And thank goodness I had a guy on the phone that he knows or he doesn’t know who convinced him to, he worked at a recovery place. I didn’t even know him, but I have been in this business. You start meeting people. Right.


I ended up calling him. It was nine o’clock at night. He talked to Jake for maybe five minutes on the phone. And Jake was like, all right, I’ll go to detox. Wow. Holy chowder. I don’t know what you said in five minutes, dude, but you are my new best friend. So everybody’s going to be calling you asking for this guy’s number. Exactly. So yeah, so it’s, it’s been a journey, but he’s, you know, today is a good.


And I think that’s a good thing. And I think


it’s difficult sometimes to be supportive. And now like, and I know a lot of parents really struggle with that. Like, how did you not lose hope and figure out how you were going to support him in this process 16 times? I’ve lost hope many times, but I’ve now gotten to a point where like people around me, and again, they’re not in this walk of life that we are.


So people get so excited when I share a story about Jake and they’re like, oh my gosh, this is it. It sounds like this is gonna be the one. I have had it in my life so many times that this is the one, he sounds great, yay, recovery. And get so excited and then six months later he relapses and my heart is devastated and crushed and I’m back to.


And I thought, I can’t keep living like this. Like if I get too excited about where he is, the only person who gets let down is me. Right. So am I happy for him? 100%. But I won’t get to that ecstatic. This is the one. Because we don’t know. We don’t know what the future holds for any of us. I mean, I can go outside today and get hit by a car. Like I hope not. But.


Like literally we don’t know the future. So for me to get excited about the future is silly. It’s really silly for me. So I’d rather just get excited for today’s a new day. And it’s so far, it’s been a beautiful day. Yeah, I agree. I definitely have changed my perspective on that’s not the solution. There you go. Sorry. I live by the train tracks, I apologize.


That is not the solution. Like I think that that’s an important way of looking at it is the solution is really just how we keep showing up and living our life no matter what’s happening in our kid’s life. And I think it sounds like that’s how you live your life. That that’s not the solution and that you know how to live your life no matter what is going on with your son. Correct. You got it. You know me pretty well. So.


You said earlier that you were a single mom. And I know that a lot of times when I get on a call with parents, they’ll talk about experiencing this alone and how hard it is to experience it as a single mom. And, you know, I’ve thought many times, like, I wish I had somebody to help me with this, I wish that I had another person that I have people that I can turn to who will listen to me and support me, but I don’t have a bit.


And I think that’s a good thing. And I think


but financially supported or support me, he never, ever, ever. And so I was just angry at him mostly. And then I had another relationship for like five years and he left and that just devastated me. Like, why is nobody supporting? Like, I want, just that, like, can I just cry on someone’s shoulder? Like I am having a crappy day.


And I just want someone to hold me and let me ball like a baby for, give me 30 minutes. I’d be happy. And then I’ll wipe my tears and put on my big girl panties and I’ll keep going. But I don’t have that. And having another child in the house when Ian did live here, um, that was hard because I don’t want to be sad around him. I want his life to be, you know,


I don’t want to say perfect because nothing’s perfect, but I wanted him to feel loved and cared for in that I wasn’t a hundred percent in Jake anymore. I was 50 50 and I loved him just as much. And so I would cry in the shower. Like I would ball in the shower when I was having a bad day. And then I come, I had good morning. What do you want? You feel like Sybil. Like I literally was a psycho lunatic of my emotions because


I faked it because I didn’t want my other son to see me sad. And now that he’s, you know, 21 and in college, he’s like, mom, I, I knew you were crying in the shower. Like, I thought I was really good at this. And so it, it’s, it’s a challenge. It truly is finding people like you. I mean, is, is so rewarding for me. And it fuels me because, you know, my best friend has never had these issues.


but she’s my support. She’s definitely there for me. But when I’m talking to you, like your head’s nodding up and down, like you’re like, yep, that’s what happened in my, we have that similarity. And I think it’s so important to have people that truly have walked this walk with you. And even though our stories could be different, we get each other. And, you know, a lot of people do the Al-Anon, the Nar-Anon, that type of stuff.


I did it for a long time. I just, I needed more tools. I needed people who could give me tools and not just let’s hear another sad story and we’ll pray for you. Like I just felt like great, pray for me, love it. Great, you know, I’m glad you have a story as well, but I needed to stay away from so many negative stories. It was really bringing me down and


I pray for me, but can you give me tools too, please? Because I really need the tools. And that’s what I was missing. So I had to go find it for myself. I totally agree with you. I went to hundreds of AA and Hellenon meetings and like my life was devoted to it when I was married to my daughter’s father and…


It was, I’m grateful for what I learned, but I got to a certain place of. I need more tools, just like you. It was, it didn’t take me far enough. I wanted to be healthier. I didn’t want to have to depend on. And the other thing is every group is so different. It’s hard to find a group that is focused on solution and people aren’t just talking about problems for an hour, however long the meeting is. So I loved that.


I’m not saying that I’m not going to be able to do it. I’m just saying that I’m not going to be able to do it. And so I think that’s a really good point for me. When I heard, when I first really heard coaching, I was like, wow, that really aligns with Alan on, but it’s like the college level. That I’m looking for. That I saw, I really understood what I needed to do and why I needed to do it, why it would work. And so I get that.


other options on the podcast just to open up so that people have feel like they have choices. I felt like I had no choices. I don’t know if you felt that way too. I did. I did. And even like the Facebook groups, I know you and I have talked about different Facebook groups. I went in there when I finally got my certified, I was trying to collect data. So I went on a bunch of mom struggling type of like Facebook groups.


And it just brought me down again. And I obviously had control of it of, okay, I’m done with this because I could only spend 15 minutes because every single story was, I don’t know what to do. I wanna kill myself. My son killed himself. Like there was not a lot of joy. It was all, and to me that all that does is make me worry and anxious. And I…


that’s not what I need in my life. So for me, I try to stay off of those and find things again, that will bring me happiness that I can be grateful for versus, oh, I’m so sorry. I’m so sorry. I’m so sorry. Everybody’s so sorry. And I don’t want to be sorry anymore. I just want happiness. Like let’s live our life. Let’s party. Maybe not party, party, but party.


Yeah. And to be able to give each other solutions and not focus on the problem. So I get people need to vent sometimes, but then we also need to be able to say, okay, well here, this is what you do in that situation. Correct. And I never got that anywhere else before. And so that’s why I’m like shouting it from the rooftops now. I’ll stand up there with you and shout.


So let’s end with self care. So I’m doing this series of interviews because I’m having my surgery on June 1st and I’m gonna be playing them while I’m recovering. So I’m gonna be focused on self care. Like how do you put your own oxygen mask on first? Like I know that you love to walk. Sometimes you just mentioned going several times a day, but what else do you do to really keep your mental health intact? So every morning I get up around 6.15


do a meditation and then I do a 15 minute coursework of it’s all mindset type stuff. So like this month, um, are there 10 day usually, and they’re like, I did one on jealousy. I did one on finding joy. So I I’m always working to make myself more knowledgeable. Like I have to get that. The meditation has been really helpful for me. Yeah.


I just bought a spin bike for my birthday, for a happy birthday me. So, and I’m trying to do more of healthy eating type of stuff and just be aware of me and how to stay healthy as I’m getting older. I want to have a good mind, a good body. And you know, I live on a, it’s a three story. So I’m doing stairs left and right. I got to make sure I can get up these stairs. So that’s part of it too.


So I’m sure that people are gonna want to know more about you. How do they find you? They find me on New Day Family Recovery. That’s my Instagram, my Facebook, and my website. I’m all about every day is a new day. And so New Day Family Recovery, that’s me.


Well, I really appreciate you being on today and taking the time to share your story. I think it’s really important to hear people who are living in joy and creating the life that they want because so that we don’t get just so stuck in feeling like it’s impossible. So thanks for your time today. You are very welcome and know that I am thinking and sending you beautiful positive thoughts for your surgery. Thank you. Absolutely.


Thank you for listening to this episode. If you wanna learn more about my work, go to heat If you wanna help other parents who are struggling with a child’s addiction, you can do it two different ways. First, you can share the podcast with them directly, or you can share it on your social media. Second, you can leave a review. Talk to you next week.